ABET Accreditation in Community Colleges

I received an interesting email that I wanted to share with you. It is about ABET accreditation in community colleges. Something I have heard many times and even had some experience with. Anyway, here is the note:

Mr. Frenzel
Have you ever thought of commenting on the effects of the new ABET TAC criteria on whether two[-year] schools decide to continue with the accreditation? The reason why I ask this is my school is up for reaccredidation and there are some in the Engineering Technology department who question the expense of being accredited verse its benefits. The feeling is that the cost outweighs the benefits and not being accredited would give us the flexibility in creating a program that would attract more students.My feeling is that ABET does not understand that most of the students from a two year program get jobs and do not continue on to a four year school. The TAC accreditation for two year programs seems to be aimed at preparing students for a four year degree not employment.
Thanks for the Blog. Keep up the good work.
Philip Regalbuto

Here was my response:

Good to hear from you. You asked a great question and one that I have not commented on in the blog. But I can give you a brief background on my own experiences and opinion for that that is worth.

First, let me say that the ABET has good intentions and does a good job at at what they do. In my opinion, they just do a good job at the wrong thing, at least for AAS technician degree programs. But they are really dead on target for the BSET programs. And I agree with your comment that they do not seem to recognize the fact that AAS grads usually go on to jobs and not a 4-year BSET. I have never seen any hard data on what percentage of AAS grads go on to a BSET but from what I have heard it is very low, only a few percent. However, if the community college is very near a university offering a BSET the percentage is much higher. That is not the usual case. Here at Austin CC in Texas, we are near Texas A&M and Texas State U but our transfer rate is less than 1%. Most grads want jobs asap. I suspect that some AAS grads do eventually go back but it is rare. For that reason, what good is ABET?

My own experience with ABET has been awful. A few years back at a CC in Florida, the president asked why our dept wasn't ABET accredited. The dept head at the time asked us why not. We all agreed to pursue it, dumb as we were at the time. Putting together the applilcation, we all began to realize that what we were doing may not actually be as good for us as we thought. When we had our formal review a committe visit, we all knew we should have declined. The reviewers keep thinking that all techs needed to be more like engineers. They asked us to add calculus to the AAS degree. They asked that we add more design and simulation to each course.

The dept head agreed to make the changes and we did. The overall result is that we had to drop some courses from the program, courses that some of the local companies depended on. The industry advisory committee was furious. The addition of calculus forced some (most as I recall) students to fuss and gripe and many to drop out. And there were other problems. The bottom line is that we lost students and industry support. And the cost of maintaining the accreditation was very high, something no one expected. At least the president and dept head could boast of being ABET accredited. This accreditation seems to be more of an academic ego thing. Besides I have never heard of any company demand or for that matter even know about ABET accreditation. I suspect there are exceptions to that, but for the most part industry is happy with your regular regional accrediation and either doesn't know about ABET or care.

While I was dept head at Austin CC where I am now an adjunct, I went through the same procedure. My dean said to look into ABET. I related my past experience but decided to do more. I conducted a survey on the ETD listserv and asked about AAS degree accreditation With ABET. I have the results of this some where but I can sum it up rather easily. 48% of those who responded were ABET accredited. Most did it to ensure positive articulation with BSET schools although most admitted few grads actually transferred. Those who were ABET accredited universally griped about the cost to maintain accreditation. Most also said they would not do it again knowing what they know now. The non-ABET group was happy with their decision as it gave them far more flexibility to create programs and courses that fit the job opps and meet local industry needs. Jobs is what it is all about these days. We did NOT pursue ABET accreditation at ACC. And you know what? The BSET schools still accept most couses for credit transfer anyway.

I know ABET has revised its policies but from those I have talked with I can discern the same smug academic positioning that says AAS programs should be more robust and more engineering-like. Techs are not engineers. Even the engineering tech has essentially gone away. What ABET needs is a group that knows what today's techs actually do and establish an accreditation for that rather than some mythical engineering-like person.

Sorry for the long rant. Maybe I should post this for the blog. Thanks for asking. I know you need to gather your own data and make the decision best for your school. My advise would be to drop ABET and go your own way based on jobs and local industry needs. You will never go wrong with that. And maybe it will send a signal to ABET that change is needed.

Very best wishes,
Lou Frenzel

Things They Don't Teach You in School, Part 3: Video

VIDEO
It is one of the biggest electronic product sectors in the world and it is getting bigger every day. It is also one of the most complex. Yet, what schools actually teach video in any form or fashion? None that I know of. I would love to hear from any of you who actually do teach TV, video or anything like it.

Four recent events got me to thinking about the dearth of video instruction. First, I just finished updating the chapter on Television in my McGraw Hill textbook. I updated it last about 3 years ago, but the content was already out of date. The bulk of the chapter covered the usual NTSC TV standards from the 50s and 60s. I had to add all the latest info on digital TV and HDTV. Satellite TV is digital as it the high definition programs you get on some of your cable subscriptions. The over-the-air HDTV is in most cities know but few watch it. But its popularity is growing. There is also IP TV, that is, TV over the Internet soon to be offered by your telephone company. And there are lots of new services beginnning to offer TV over cell phones. They handsets are not yet available but they are on the way. Europe already has digital TV with their digital video broadcast (DVB) standard and all its related variations. The US is behind both Europe and Asia in digital TV. As I was updating my chapter with all this good new stuff, I had to ask the question: who actually teaches this stuff? My answer is, probably no one in a community college. Why?

Another event was the Xmas selling season. Large screen TV sales boomed. Prices of plasma, LCD, DLP and other big screens have plummeted making them highly desirable comsumer produts, at last. Do you have one? Do you know how it works or even how to hook one up?

Third, the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) this past week in Las Vegas was heavily focused on video, HDTV, DTV and all other related items. Big screens, TV on cell phones, wireless video, BlueRay or HD-DVD video recording formats, and so on. I have also, as a result, been bombarded with press releases from chip companies offering all the latest digital video and TV products. I will be writing about them for my magazine Electronic Design. It is a HOT topic.

Fourth, a friend of mine recently called me and asked me where he could find a good video technician. He is a video producer and runs a studio where he makes promotional videos, instructional videos, and special TV programs for PBS. He says that his long time tech quit to go else where and he has not been able to find one. The ads have not brought one response and the local community college says they don't teach that. So where does an employer go to find a good tech who knows about cameras, recorders, mixers, special effects, titlers, and all the audio stuff that goes along with it?

The video field is growing and offering jobs to techs interested in TV and video. Recent articles talk about Circuit City and Best Buy who cannot find techs or technical savvy sales persons for sellling, installing and repairing HDTV and surround sound systems. But video is not one of those fields where hundreds or thousands techs are needed immediately. The overall need is small but still there. It is like most other electronic tech jobs these days. Lots of different ones in low volume. Just because the need is less does that mean we don't support or teach that specialty? I hope not.

All it would take is one or two good courses to teach this video as a specialization in any AAS electronic degree. For a few thousand bucks and some donations you could set up a lab.

Just a thought. One more way to justify and save our programs.

Happy New Year

Just a short note to wish you all a happy and prosperous 2006. Thanks for reading the blog. And I welcome all of you to comment and contribute. We need all the ideas, opinions and information we can get. We are all concerned about enrollments and the plight of the AAS degree in electronics technology. Let's pool our knowledge and efforts and work toward a national solution we can all agree upon. Share your thoughts here.

May your enrollments increase this year.
Best wishes,
Lou Frenzel